May 2002
posts
Some
Spike speculation for Series 7 (Spoilery for Seeing Red,
natch) -- Marie, 17:14:49 05/09/02 Thu
Having finally watched Seeing Red, and thinking about what
on earth ME have planned for Spike, I started musing and
came up with this – they have to make him human.
Why? Well, simply because I don’t think they’ll make him
lose the chip, by whatever means, just to become the old
‘Big Bad’ Spike, much as I loved him. And that darn chip
issue has to be resolved, as even Spike seems at long last
to have come to realise. So, we’ve had bad-Spike, impotent-
Spike, lovelorn-Spike – and thoroughly enjoyed his journey.
Where can this journey possibly take him next? After all,
ME have to be more inventive than to give us another vampire-
with-a-soul, don’t you agree?
I think that something is going to happen to Spike in Africa
– through magical means, naturally, which not only gives him
a soul, but transforms him entirely – from Spike back to
William. And I don’t think it’ll be the William of old, but
a William with Spike’s memories, and everything that goes
with them – the strength, the attitude, the black leather
coat… the Slayer-love?
After all, she couldn’t love a vampire, but a vampire-turned-
man?
Marie
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Re: Some Spike speculation for Series 7 (Spoilery for
Seeing Red, natch) -- Dariel, 17:48:07 05/09/02
Thu
You could be right about the turning him human thing.
Spike's plan to get rid of the chip, like most of his plans,
won't quite work the way he expects...
Or the way we do. If they do this, remember--ME never gives
us the fantasy version. Which a badass, but human Spike
would be. My guess is we'd get a very confused, unhappy
Spike, at least for awhile. Greatly appalled by his
burgeoning humanity and "weak" Williamesque feelings. And
forget about the sexual self confidence--out the door.
Yep, that's what they'll do to him. The bastards!
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Uh oh, also includes spoilers for upcoming S6
episodes! -- Dyna, 18:20:37 05/09/02 Thu
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Re: Some Spike speculation for Series 7 (Spoilery for
Seeing Red, natch) -- Dochawk, 19:08:33 05/09/02
Thu
Remember when Angel became human (I Will Remember You) he
lost his vamp strength. Spike suddenly human, with human
aches and pains and conscience, but without the vamp
strength. I fear he would be Wimpy William, not William the
Bloody, but I agree we will see a different Spike (and we've
seen Vamp with a soul and we've also seen Buffy's lover gone
evil so it doesn't leave many new options). ohh we could
see Spike the Friendly Ghost (I'm hoping for tara the
friendly ghost though)
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Re: Some Spike speculation for Series 7 (Spoilery for
Seeing Red, natch) -- wiscoboy, 08:48:04 05/10/02
Fri
What I see happenning is that the chip is made non-
functional, but Spike finds he really has changed, and can
no longer bring himself to harm humanity. Remember, in past
eps he has said there has been a change in him. Now we get
to see if ME allows the change to occur.
[>
Re: Some Spike speculation for Series 7 (Spoilery for
Seeing Red, natch) -- Ishkabibble, 19:09:39 05/09/02
Thu
A long time ago I remember posting an hypothesis that Spike
would eventually become William once again. I believe there
is some connection between Buffy having withdrawn from
college where she enjoyed poetry with a Professor Lillian
and a future Spike/William. Not only do Lillian and William
both have an affinity for poetry, but their names even
rhyme. And why was this class and instructor the only one
that was shown when Buffy withdrew? Also, remember she
received a letter during season 6 saying she had missed the
deadline for re-enrolling. Well, next September will be a
new semester; perfect time for Buffy to re-enroll.
What do others think?
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Re: Some Spike speculation for Series 7 (Spoilery for
Seeing Red, natch) -- dream of the consortium,
06:31:21 05/10/02 Fri
I've always believed the same. Though, maybe I just have a
soft spot for poets - I'm dating one at the moment! (Full-
time poet, yes.)
[>
Re: Some Spike speculation for Series 7 (Spoilery for
Seeing Red, natch) -- redcat, 19:10:54 05/09/02
Thu
And I don’t think it’ll be the William of old, but a
William with Spike’s memories...."
I have the same sneaking suspicion, especially given the
acting/camera work at the very end
of the bathroom scene. James Marsters brilliantly plays
that face, William's face, and the
lighting and camera work capture the luminescence of his
stark desperation as it breaks into
startled self-consciousness. But the face we see at this
point is that of a William who has lived
more than a hundred years as a vampire, most of them with
his insane sire/lover and the
twisted "family" into which he was re-born-as-dead. I don't
think we're ever going to see him
curled up on the ground in psychic and physical pain over
his past, as we've seen Angel at the
moment he was first cursed by the Romany, but I suspect
we'll see some embodied metaphor
of him having to do that "hardest thing in life" –simply
"live in it."
No matter what happens, like yourself and several others on
the board, I trust that Joss and
ME will conspire to take us on a difficult and mesmerizing
journey. Since I also have a pretty
clear sense that, by now, the characters control the writers
in about equal proportion to the
writers controlling the characters, I'm content to keep
sitting forward, analysis gears at
fully-caffeined throttle, and wait for what happens
next.
[>
Weren't we kinda already warned? ;-) (spoilers for
Forever) -- Solitude1056, 20:07:24 05/09/02 Thu
Keeping in mind that it took anywhere from two episodes to
two years before we found out the multiple levels in
Graduation Day and Restless - "little miss
muffet," and "be back before Dawn," anyone? - it wouldn't
surprise me that the strange commentary from our favorite
visiting broadway star (not the singing demon, but the other
singing demon), Joel Grey... might finally have a purpose,
and prove to have been there for a reason?
From Forever:
DOC
(sees Spike)
I know you.
SPIKE
Don't think so, mate.
DOC
(confused)
No, you're that guy. That guy always hangs around down at
the corner mart. Big into dominos, aren't you?
SPIKE
Can't say that I am. Look, we came because-
DOC
That's crazy, isn't it? I'd swear you were him. I mean, your
hair's a different color and you're a vampire, but other
than that… (then) What day is it, anyway?
DAWN
Monday.
DOC
No kidding? Would have sworn it was Wednesday… see, that's
the brain - first thing to go.
(back to Spike)
Guy's name is Rocko. That's not your name, is it?
Hmmmmm...
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oh and don't forget... (spoilers for WotW) --
Solitude1056, 20:11:44 05/09/02 Thu
The even more peculiar commentary from Doc (Joel Grey), in
Weight of the World, when he shouts at Spike and
Xander:
You think only underworld bottom feeders worship
the Beast? ... Her day is coming, boys. And when
she returns [emphasis added] - then you're gonna see
something.
all together now: hmmmmm.
[>
Another (Horrible) Possibility -- West, 00:38:28
05/10/02 Fri
There's also the possibility I've heard rumored that Spike
will return sans chip and still a vamp, but will make a
conscious choice to stay on the side of the Scoobies, thus
proving his love for Buffy is true. Of course, I really,
REALLY hope this isn't true because it would completely
humanize vampires (which they've been gradually doing all
season with the whole chip/Good Spike thing), and if we find
that vampires are capable of repemption, then it means that
Buffy's pretty much been comitting murder all these
years.
I really hope this isn't what's gonna happen, but the whole
'Spike with a soul' thing really seems like a lame attempt
to replace Angel on the show.
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Re: Another (Horrible) Possibility -- Ishkabibble,
08:11:23 05/10/02 Fri
I woke up this morning with the thought of ME resolving the
S/B relationship with their usual twisted sense of humor.
Envision Spike coming back as William and Buffy eventually
growing to love him. But as William, Spike’s superior
strength would be gone and so would Spike’s ability to watch
Buffy’s back. In other words, Buffy gets a lover with
William or a protector with Spike, but not both. Then
imagine ME setting up a scenario where Spike/William has to
choose between these two roles. Oh, the agony…the irony.
If he chooses to remain William, he places Buffy’s life at
risk. If he chooses to be revamped as Spike, he can again
protect her back, but knows that as a soulless demon, he
will loose her love. Which would he choose? My guess is
that he would do the noble thing and forgo her love in order
to provide with her protection. Such a sacrifice seems in
character with loving someone; we willingly put the other
person’s needs ahead of our own. Dang…I hate it when I ruin
my own fantasy. I’m going back to sleep in order to dream
a happier ending.
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Hasn't that already been done, though? I'm thinking
Angel, here... -- Marie, 08:49:17 05/10/02 Fri
...and ME are more inventive than that - which is why I'd
imagine him as someone Buffy actually can love, in a
way she couldn't love Angel or Riley. Someone her equal,
who wasn't immortal. Would she allow herself to do so?
Marie
[>
Not Meaning to Rain On Your Parade -- Spike Lover,
08:43:45 05/10/02 Fri
First, could Buffy love Spike if he had his soul back or if
he bec